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The Growlery - Puma: analysis
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
forthright
[info]forthright
Puma: analysis
Well, firstly, I have to admit that this poll was inspired largely by the fantastically bad movie "Puma Man", as seen through the lens of the Mystery Science Theater 3000 guys. In this terrible movie, all of the characters pronounce the "hero's" name POO-ma, except for the villain (played by well-known British character actor Donald Pleasance), who says PYOO-ma, much to the amusement of the American MST3K guys, who mock his pronunciation heartily.

Of all the polls I've done to date, this one had the clearest results. No one chose 'Other', and the responses divided relatively well along national lines, with most British, British-influenced, and Australian respondents choosing PYOO-ma, most Americans POO-ma, and Canadians divided, with more POO-mas but a few PYOO-mas. Most British dictionaries list only PYOO-ma, while most American dictionaries list POO-ma as the primary variant with PYOO-ma secondary.

'Puma' came into English in 1777, via Spanish and ultimately from Quechua. In both source languages, POO-ma is the accepted pronunciation. It is thus surprising that British English would use PYOO-ma.

However, English is a curious tongue (as you all should know by now!). Once upon a time, most English consonants followed directly by the letters 'eu', 'ew', or 'u' when pronounced like [u] (a long U sound) were pronounced as if there was a Y sound (IPA: [j]) between the consonant and vowel. You still hear this in plenty of words, like pure, human, butane, few, cue, etc, etc. When an [u] sound is spelled 'oo' or 'ou', however, no Y sound is inserted: poor [pur] vs. pure [pjur]. (I won't go into why the spelling makes so much difference; it has to do mostly with the Great Vowel Shift).

However, a process delightfully named yod-dropping takes place, wherein the Y sound is dropped after certain consonants. This almost always happens with 'r' and 'ch', but also, in many dialects, after, for instance, [s], [l], [z], [t], [d], and [n]. So, for instance, in British English dew is [dju] but in American English it's [du]. In British English one says [njuz] for news as opposed to Standard American [nuz]. And so on. However, for other consonants, such as [b], [p], [k], and [h], there is no yod-dropping in most English dialects, so [pu] > [pju] in pure, puberty, computer, pupil, and so on.

The upshot of all this is that in both American and British English, there is a tension between the etymologically correct POO-ma and the pronunciation expected from the spelling, PYOO-ma. Because British English is more conservative when it comes to yod-dropping, British speakers follow the general rule that the [j] sound should be inserted, whereas American English, even though it normally adds the [j] after [p], leaves it out. This may very well also be because pumas (also known as cougars and mountain lions) are native to the Americas and thus North Americans are more likely to hear and use the term, while Brits, Australians, and others are more likely to see it only in writing. Other words that may exhibit similar variation include capuchin, tempura and ampoule/ampule, however, and none of these are so geographically restricted.

Now my only question is: Why doesn't anyone say HYOO-la hoop?

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Comments
meallanmouse From: [info]meallanmouse Date: March 7th, 2006 02:49 am (UTC) (Link)
...because the hoop is there and somehow influences how the the "hu" from hula is said?

XD
forthright From: [info]forthright Date: March 7th, 2006 02:59 am (UTC) (Link)
Could be, could be! :)
whatifoundthere From: [info]whatifoundthere Date: March 7th, 2006 08:23 am (UTC) (Link)
Ever since you posted this poll, Schwarzenegger's voice has been echoing in my head: "IT'S NOT A POO-MA!" You should be getting the therapy bill in the mail any day now.

Me, I'm interested in how a coyotl somehow became both coy-oh-tee and coy-oat (in some places I've been, even kwai-oat). Other Nahuatl words ('chocolate' comes to mind) don't have that kind of variation, do they?
andsaca369 From: [info]andsaca369 Date: March 7th, 2006 11:31 am (UTC) (Link)
Here's another for the list- kai-OH-tee, in upstate New York. But their offspring with domesticated dogs are called coy-dogs. Go figure.
eljuno From: [info]eljuno Date: March 7th, 2006 02:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
That's what we call them here in New England, too. 'kai-OH-tee', Imean.
andsaca369 From: [info]andsaca369 Date: March 8th, 2006 07:17 am (UTC) (Link)
I thought that was universal, until I moved down South. There are a couple different flavours of the word, depending on whether or not you're in the mountains. V. startling to a rural New Yorker like meself. *g*
forthright From: [info]forthright Date: March 7th, 2006 02:26 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yup, that's my pronunciation as well.
forthright From: [info]forthright Date: March 7th, 2006 02:23 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thank you, thank you. If I can drive only one person completely bonkers with these polls, I'll have done my job. :)


For 'coyote', there are at least four distinct pronunciations I've heard:
kai-OH-tee
koy-OH-tee
KAI-oat
KOY-oat

Never heard 'kwai-oat', but given the variation I *have* heard, I don't doubt it. As with 'foyer', 'w' and 'o' tend to blend together in some contexts.

I also wonder whether 'kai-OH-tay' and 'koy-OH-tay' are used, since they're closer to the N. Am. Spanish from which English borrowed the word. I'll add it to my list of future polls.
eljuno From: [info]eljuno Date: March 7th, 2006 07:24 pm (UTC) (Link)
I also wonder whether 'kai-OH-tay' and 'koy-OH-tay' are used, since they're closer to the N. Am. Spanish from which English borrowed the word.

I'm 99% certain that I heard my Oklahoman grandfather referred to them as one of the preceeding.
forthright From: [info]forthright Date: March 7th, 2006 07:30 pm (UTC) (Link)
All right, I'll put them on my list for the poll! Out of curiosity, was your grandfather fluent in Spanish and/or a Native American language?
eljuno From: [info]eljuno Date: March 7th, 2006 07:32 pm (UTC) (Link)
Both my grandparents were fluent in Cherokee.
forthright From: [info]forthright Date: March 7th, 2006 07:40 pm (UTC) (Link)
That would tend to explain it. 'E' is always pronounced 'ay' in Cherokee.
forthright From: [info]forthright Date: March 7th, 2006 07:37 pm (UTC) (Link)
P.S. I've heard 'guacamole' pronounced as 'GWOCK-a-mole' as well as 'GWOCK-a-MOLE-ee'; that's another Nahuatl example along the same lines. And then of course there's to-MAY-tow/to-MAH-tow.
whatifoundthere From: [info]whatifoundthere Date: March 7th, 2006 09:26 pm (UTC) (Link)
Huh. I never thought of that. I've never heard the word "mole" ("sauce") with a silent E on the end -- it's always mow-lee or mow-lay. And yet the E on the end of "guacamole" is sometimes silent, as you observe, even though it comes from the same word. I suppose "mole" is too easily confused with other English words, while "guacamole" is not.

Around here we tend to just call the stuff "guac" anyway :)
andsaca369 From: [info]andsaca369 Date: March 8th, 2006 06:59 am (UTC) (Link)
Is that anything like whack-a-mole?

~flee!~
andsaca369 From: [info]andsaca369 Date: March 7th, 2006 11:29 am (UTC) (Link)
Other words that may exhibit similar variation include capuchin, tempura and ampoule/ampule...


Hmm. That's a bit strange.

Capuchin = CAP-oo-chin
Tempura = tem-POO-rah
But ampule = AM-pyool

Does this make me an odd creature?
forthright From: [info]forthright Date: March 7th, 2006 04:01 pm (UTC) (Link)
Odd? Well, sure, perhaps, but aren't we all? All three words are, for sure!

'Tempura' is obviously a recent loanword from Japanese (though possibly ultimately Portuguese in origin!), but I can't find any dictionary that lists 'tem-PYOO-rah' - though I don't doubt that some people pronounce it that way. I can find 'TEM-poo-rah' (your pronunciation and mine) as well as 'tem-POO-rah'.

'Ampule' is special because it is sometimes spelled with an 'ou' (suggesting a non-Y pronounciation, according to the rules I stated above) and other times with just a 'u'. The OED lists it with [pu] rather than [pju], but several American dictionaries list the [pju] pronounciation along with the 'ampule' variant spelling, suggesting that the spelling is leading the pronunciation in this case, and that the reverse situation to 'puma' applies (Brits don't have [pju], Americans do)!

I've heard 'capuchin' pronounced in many, many different ways, and the dictionaries are practically schizoid on the issue. Not only is there the [pu] vs. [pju] debate, there's the question of whether to pronounce the final syllable as starting with 'sh' or 'ch', and then there is the issue of where to place the stress - all three syllables are candidates!
andsaca369 From: [info]andsaca369 Date: March 8th, 2006 07:02 am (UTC) (Link)
I hadn't even considered the ch vs. sh issue- I tend to the latter, although if I'm honest, it's a bit of a blend. Again, slightly odd for me- usually, when pronouncing a word outside of standard, 'native' English, I tend to fall back on my secondary language, which is Spanish, and in which the 'ch' sound usually tends to be very hard.

I wonder where I picked capuchin up from, then? Something to ponder. :)
eljuno From: [info]eljuno Date: March 7th, 2006 02:16 pm (UTC) (Link)
POO-ma man, PYOO-ma man, he still flies like a moron...
forthright From: [info]forthright Date: March 7th, 2006 04:28 pm (UTC) (Link)
He sure does!
caille From: [info]caille Date: March 7th, 2006 05:48 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hee. I pronounce "puma" - "mountain lion". Neither poomah or pyoomah feels right in my mouth.

I remember reading a novel - probably a young adult novel - in which there was a weird high school teacher who insisted that "jazz" was to be pronounced "jahz", and if you were going to sing the blues, you'd better be singing the "blyooze". ( I also had a friend who'd grown up in Ohio. She reported that her teacher always corrected people who pronounced Detroit "dee-TROYT", saying it should be "d'TWAH".)

Here is one I doubt you'll find anywhere else, because I think it occurred only within my immediate family: my father always pronounced "Wyoming" as "Wyomee", 'cause, like the "ing" was silent or something. I had to teach myself to say the "ing". Also, when speaking of the simple plastic or rubber footwear that one dons to go to the shower (or the market or wherever), I always call them "flip-flops", because in my family, they were calling "thongs", except that once again, part of the word was "silent". So we wore "tongs".

Also, I say kai-OH-tee. And Nevada, not "Ne-VAH-da", and OR-uh-gn, not "OR-eh-gone", and New OR-lns, not "New or-LEENS" or "New OR-lee-uns". But I do not mean to inhibit anyone else. YPMV. (Your pronunciation may vary.)
forthright From: [info]forthright Date: March 7th, 2006 06:01 pm (UTC) (Link)
Virtually no one says 'blyooze', because one of the circumstances where yod-dropping is almost universal is following a consonant cluster, not only [bl] but any other cluster. So, while many British people pronounce 'dew' as [dju], very few pronounce 'blue' as [blju]. It's because the consonant cluster is complex enough already without the extra y in there.

"d'TWAH" (or any other attempt to pronounce Detroit in the original French) is also rather silly. dee-TROYT is by far the most common, although some people say dee-TROY-it.

Wyomee sounds ... well, it sounds like some sort of weird hillbilly talk. On the other hand, some people do pronounce Missouri as 'miz-ZUR-rah', so there you go.

Out of curiosity, where did you grow up?

From: [info]caille Date: March 7th, 2006 06:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
I grew up near Detroit. My father was born in Sunbury, Pennsylvania, and moved to Port Huron, Michigan as a youngster, so there's definitely some Pennsylvania Dutch influence there. Also, he says miz-ZUR-ah, too. But he totally freaks out if he hears anyone pronounce the "s" in "Illinois". Thinks it's terribly ignorant.

Huh. That reminds me of when I lived in Utah, briefly, some 20 years ago. One of the most common put-downs among the kids there was "ignorant", pronounced IG-nruhnt. ("Oh, don't be IG-nruhnt.")
forthright From: [info]forthright Date: March 7th, 2006 07:00 pm (UTC) (Link)
Some of the Pennsylvania dialects have very unusual features. It's one of those places where there are a number of linguistic faultlines in terms of phonetics and vocabulary, without even considering the influence of Pennsylvania Dutch, which as you note is pretty considerable in certain counties.

As for 'ignorant', I've heard some people reducing it still further, saying IG-nuhnt, similarly to your example, as a put-down.
andsaca369 From: [info]andsaca369 Date: March 8th, 2006 07:08 am (UTC) (Link)
dee-TROYT is by far the most common, although some people say dee-TROY-it.

d'TROIT, here. I have never, ever heard it pronounced d'TWAH. I tried saying out loud and interrupted myself giggling.

I've learned to pronounce Nevada correctly (neh-VA-dah) by virtue of working with a guy from Reno, and it's always been OR-uh-gn, as far as I was concerned. However, Missouri is miz-OO-ree, every syllable quite distinct. miz-URR-ee, if I'm speaking quickly or back home in NY. Or both, as wandering home again is usually what precipitates speeding up the speech.

N'awlins is a given. *g* I know too many Cajuns and Cajun derivatives (the people, not the dialect) to say it any other way.
ymf From: [info]ymf Date: March 7th, 2006 10:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
because i'd learnt it as "hoola hoop" and thought that "hula hoop" was a variation of the original!
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