Debacle

Thread started by the lightning mouse

	From: meallanmouse	Date: February 23rd, 2006 10:52 pm (UTC)		(Link)

With the A from bake rather than tackle...

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	From: forthright	Date: February 23rd, 2006 10:54 pm (UTC)		(Link)

de-BAKE-ul? Neat. I would have thought you would pronounce it the French way for sure.

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	From: meallanmouse	Date: February 24th, 2006 03:32 am (UTC)		(Link)

:: grins ::

A lot of my English learning, after the formative years spent in L.A., came from reading and television. Words I'd never heard said out loud earned a sounding out that I thought made sense, really, in a way. Some of that sticks still at times, and also, the LA accent I'm told. XD I wouldn't know myself, on that score.

Pronouncing it the French way, as described in the poll, actually sounds awfully awkward and too complex for what the word needs, to me. de-BAke-ul just flows nicely. XD

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	From: forthright	Date: February 24th, 2006 05:57 am (UTC)		(Link)

Yeah, it's extremely clumsy to pronounce it the French way due to conflicts with English phononlogical rules, but because it's a fairly recent borrowing into English a significant minority still pronounce it as if it were, essentially, still French. And I also agree with you that a lot of people don't really use the word in speech or even hear it very often, so that may explain the variety in how people pronounce it.

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	From: ladyiolanthe	Date: February 24th, 2006 05:23 am (UTC)		(Link)

I also pronounce it de-BAKE-ul.

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	From: forthright	Date: February 24th, 2006 05:59 am (UTC)		(Link)

Neat, neat! Someone should sit you down with a microphone sometime and figure out where you get such interesting pronunciations! I have found a couple of dictionaries that list yours as an acceptable alternate pronunciation, but I have no idea if it's a regionalism or something else.

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	From: ladyiolanthe	Date: February 25th, 2006 12:39 am (UTC)		(Link)

I think probably it comes from reading... I read a lot and many words I know I first encountered in books and never really heard other people pronounce. I just assigned a pronunciation that seemed likely to me when reading them.

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	From: shanmonster	Date: February 23rd, 2006 11:35 pm (UTC)		(Link)

de-BOCK-ul or DEC-e-kle, but mostly the first one. Unless I'm speaking French, and then I use the French one, natch.

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	From: mhw	Date: February 23rd, 2006 11:37 pm (UTC)		(Link)

But what about DEE-bə-kle, which I once heard on the BBC and nearly wept in fury at?

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	From: forthright	Date: February 23rd, 2006 11:44 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Wow, that's ... that's just *terrible*. I've never heard that particular pronunciation, although judging from the diversity of responses to the poll so far, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

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	From: mhw	Date: February 24th, 2006 12:19 am (UTC)		(Link)

Oh, my current BBC hate is one of the sports announcers who will insist that players have been brought off the football pitch with 'a hamstering injury'.

Seems like those Urban Legends about gerbils and cardboard tubes may have an element of truth :)

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	From: andsaca369	Date: February 23rd, 2006 11:46 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I'm closest to the French, although not exactly.

Which is odd, having grown up in rural New York state.

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	From: forthright	Date: February 24th, 2006 06:01 am (UTC)		(Link)

Yeah, it's really not possible to pronounce it *purely* in French while still having it sound like proper English, but it ends up something close to it, usually with the first syllable a little more like 'de' than 'day' and with the final 'le' often being almost absent. I think I've heard it almost as 'de-BACK'. As in 'It caused a de-BACK when they told Rosa Parks to sit at de-BACK of de-BUS' ...

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	From: andsaca369	Date: February 24th, 2006 09:49 am (UTC)		(Link)

Marvellous example. *G*

There is a hint of the 'l' sound at the end, but not as pronounced as I hear it where I am now. I'm quite sure it's a regional difference. I am living in the urban, Southern US now, and I hear it most often as "duh-BAAACK-uhl".

You'll have to imagine the drawl.

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	From: elanya	Date: February 24th, 2006 12:11 am (UTC)		(Link)

man, I'm the odd one out :o

Am I crazy then?

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	From: forthright	Date: February 24th, 2006 12:28 am (UTC)		(Link)

Well, yes. ;P Now I'm especially confused as to why you and Hazel pronounce both this and 'corollary' differently.

But when you see my survey analysis, you will at least learn that you are not alone in your madness. :)

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	From: elanya	Date: February 24th, 2006 06:24 am (UTC)		(Link)

I suspect that it is partly because it is really not a very commonly encountered wird. I've seen it written more than I've ever heard it spoken, and when I was figuring out how it should be pronounced I think I used a word that seemed similar to me... probably something like 'oracle', or, as you used earlier 'miracle'. I haven't seen it used much in french either, or that might have influenced me more.

I can't speak for the sister of course...

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	From: fiachra	Date: February 24th, 2006 01:10 am (UTC)		(Link)

I used to say it "deh-bah-kull" until the third Matrix movie. One of the characters(Commander Locke?) says "I have to figure out some way to salvage this 'de-BOCK-ul'", and I liked the way he said it better.

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	From: balthcat	Date: February 25th, 2006 01:45 am (UTC)		(Link)

See, this is how I picture the word (which I don't normally use)

I'm not sure I agree that the french vowel is an O, but more of an AH to my ear.

DeBAHkle, but definitely not deBACKle.

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	From: balthcat	Date: February 25th, 2006 01:50 am (UTC)		(Link)

Maybe I'm making a difference between AHK and OCK that isn't there...

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	From: forthright	Date: February 25th, 2006 02:02 am (UTC)		(Link)

There is a difference for some words in some English dialects, but almost certainly not yours and not in this instance.

Do you pronounce the words cot and caught identically?

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	From: balthcat	Date: February 25th, 2006 03:28 am (UTC)		(Link)

I think that's it though, I think I'm keeping a bit of the French vowel in there. I think the vowel begins differently, and may be longer. I could explain it better perhaps if I hadn't dropped out of that linguistics class before learning how to explain mouth formation :/

I keep forming it in my mouth and AHK differs from OCK/AWK.

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	From: forthright	Date: February 25th, 2006 01:52 am (UTC)		(Link)

I don't think there's any difference between the sound of the 'a' in debacle and the 'o' in cockle. It's just a spelling difference, not a phonetic one.

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	From: ginny_t	Date: February 24th, 2006 02:00 am (UTC)		(Link)

I voted for the standard French pronunciation, but sometimes I say it with a better accent than at others.

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	From: sorceror	Date: February 24th, 2006 02:27 am (UTC)		(Link)

It was a hard choice, but I think "de-BOCK-ul" won out for me.

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	From: owlfish	Date: February 24th, 2006 10:29 am (UTC)		(Link)

This is a word on which I have an inconsistant grip: I think I alternate between de-BOCK-ul and DEB-e-kle.

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	From: pauamma	Date: February 24th, 2006 11:15 am (UTC)		(Link)

day-backl'. (not sure which syllable I'd stress, if any)

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From: issi_noho	Date: February 24th, 2006 02:00 pm (UTC)		(Link)

de-BAA-kul

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From: urban_homestead	Date: February 24th, 2006 02:35 pm (UTC)		(Link)

This is a word I've heard frequently in French, but I don't think I've ever heard it in English, although of course I've seen it written. I think this says a lot about the sorts of conversations Francophones have versus Anglo-Saxons. :p

When I encounter a word that I know how to pronounce in French, but not in English, I generally pronounce it like one of the French knights in the Monty Python Holy Grail movie would, so that if I'm mispronouncing it people will think I'm just making an inept attempt at humour. But you inexplicably have no category for that.

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From: krilltish	Date: December 17th, 2008 08:04 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I first encountered it in text, which lead to "my own pronounciation" (which apparently is shared by a some others). I do not know why I pronounce it the way I do, but there must be some underlying system. I hate the sound of the first option (de-BOCK-ul).

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